February 2, 2003 - 1:12 AM

Greetings Mr. Sungenis and "Mary's Remnant" Administration:

First, a brief thank you to Mr. Sungenis for his excellent books "Not By Faith Alone," "Not By Scripture Alone," and "Not By Bread Alone." Those works helped me convert to Catholicism from a Calvinist background--I converted in Aug 2001. My wife will be entering the Church this Easter, Lord willing.

Second, and the chief reason why I am writing, is that I noticed Mr. Sungenis' "Catholic Apologetics International" web site is listed as a "Schismatic" web site at Mary's Remnant web site. I was a bit surprised; I consider Mr. Sungenis to be in the same "camp" as other traditional Catholics like Gerry Matatics (whose web site is listed as a faithful traditional site).

It's my hope that this "schismatic" identification at the Mary's Remnant web site is a mistake; can either of you clarify this for me? Mary's Remnant administration: is there a particular element of www.CatholicIntl.com that you find schismatic? I certainly hope that this apostolate is not heading toward or already on a path of schism. (I am too "new" a Catholic to always discern the difference, quite frankly, which is why I appreciate Mary's Remnant... www.marysremnant.org)

May the Lord bless you and each of your contributions to spreading the Catholic Faith.

Sincerely in Christ,

* Mr. S. B.

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February 2, 2003 - 11:40 AM

Peace and blessings Mr. B.,

First of all, we want to welcome you into the Catholic Church. It must surely have been your own example that has caused your wife to also begin studying the faith. God bless both of you.

Your name is familiar, haven't we heard from you before concerning a similar question?

You ask about Catholic Apologetics International. If I remember right, it was submitted to us by email. Since I couldn't remember exactly what the problem was, I went back to take a look after I received your email. In my brief search, I found the following articles. Had this morning's search been more thorough, I have a feeling that I could have added to the following:

Rome is Burning while the Pope is Fiddling (A Reply to Carl Olson and Envoy Magazine)
    This particular article set off all of my alarms. The article is full of sarcasm and arrogance, not a little of it aimed at the Holy Father. Had the author wanted to treat the same subject, minus the vitriol, he might have achieved a different result. As it is, however, he comes across as someone who despises the Holy Father and holds all of the Magisterium in contempt.

Fatima: Consecration or Cover-Up?
    In this article, he aligns himself with Fr. Nicholas Gruner, a priest who has been suspended by Rome because of his ongoing activities along this line. See the following articles for more information:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CCLGRNER.HTM
http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/ZFATIMA.HTM

The New Mass: Inalienable Right or Inferior Rite?
    In this article, the author dances all around the idea of condemning the Novus Ordo outright, and if not actually telling people to not attend it, he certainly leaves you feeling that attending it is not an option for a serious Catholic. For example: "... without rashly suggesting that the New Mass is an inherently evil thing, we may certainly arrive at the conclusion that it is inadequate." There are more than a few ways to be in "schism." One of the most damaging things happening in the Church today is the tendency by those on the "left" to speak around issues, leading innocent people to their leftist ideas without ever making a definitive statement that could later be quoted, and used against them. This is what the author is doing here, only on the other extreme.

We do not place this site along with other apologists like Gerry Matatics, who does not use sarcasm and arrogance against the Holy Father or Rome. If you go to his site and read anything at all on there, you will see that there are no incitements against the Novus Ordo Mass, the Holy Father, or the Magisterium. He, like many of us, would like to see a return to the reverence, and so much more, of 50's and earlier, but he remains respectful, as should anyone who believes Matthew 16:18: "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."

Finally, the web site in question has a link to a schismatic site: Catholic Insight. This could be an innocent mistake, however from the timbre of the rest of the website, I suspect the inclusion might be deliberate.

The web site has many articles which would otherwise be very good. It's a shame that the author allows such thinly veiled hatred of the Holy Father and the Magisterium seep in. If this fellow really wants to be an apologist, he may want to consider that some of his work may well drive people out of the Church, rather than into it.

I've noticed that the email you sent me was also sent to Mr. Sungenis, and so I'm am replying to both of you at once. In doing so, I want to reiterate the note on the Schism page of our website: "Note that Mary's Remnant will not enter into "dialogue" with schismatics. If you don't feel your site should be on this list, then remove whatever it is on your website that caused you to end up here. Let us know what you've done, and we'll come take a look. At that time, we will update our pages according to what we find there."

Remember that the Church is under siege from all sides right now. There are those who are on the "left" who want the Church to become some homogeneous, "anything-goes" religion that is organized by the people. They are quite obvious, and so easier to spot. There are also those who fall into the sin of pride who think they can do better the Holy Father, know more than the Magisterium, and feel that they can not only tell Rome where Her problems lay, but also lead other people into the same error and vainglory. They're a bit less obvious, and are somewhat harder to spot. When you're in doubt, ask yourself if what you're reading is in accord with the teachings of the Church, and research the subjects in question. EWTN and the Vatican website are both good places to do this. Ask yourself if the enemy has oozed any of his poison in through the use of sarcasm or arrogance ... those are not tools from Heaven. Neither is the pride that opens the door to their usage. And most importantly, pray continuously to the Holy Spirit for enlightenment.

I hope that this has answered your question. If not, then please feel free to write to us again, and we'll try to help you in any way we can.

In the Two Hearts,
Doris Ballard

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February 2, 2003 - 5:59 PM

Hello Ms. Ballard,
Yes--my name is probably familiar to you because about a year ago (?) I asked a similar question regarding the web site "Catholic Insight"--one that I have since avoided because I noticed an escalation of the vitriolic tone and sweeping accusations against the magisterium. Thank you for the heads-up on that web site. Initially it appeared to be a good traditional apologetics site; but it clearly has gone downhill since I first engaged it over two years ago.

Your answer to my question about Robert Sungenis' web site was very thorough and I appreciate the time you spent writing it. I was surprised that his site fell into the schismatic category, primarily because I have benefited from much of Mr. Sungenis' work (books & tapes) and noticed that he teamed up recently with Patrick Madrid on an EWTN special refuting the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura. To the best of my knowledge, Mr. Sungenis had always been solidly in the conservative/traditional realm of the Church (since his conversion) and his books are clearly orthodox. Within recent months, I did begin to notice the disturbing tone of some of the essays on his site. I suppose I continue to give him the benefit of the doubt--believing that he has lapsed temporarily into an unusual degree of frustration with bad elements in the Church. Simultaneously, the tapes series on Fatima (which I suppose is similar in content to the article you mention by the same title) features Mr. Sungenis & Mr. Matatics; I guess I figured that both these gentlemen fall into the same camp--but you are right in that I have not noticed the same tone on Mr. Matatics' web site that is now found at CatholicIntl.

I'm glad you responded to both of us--I hope he takes note of your concern. I'll keep an eye on how his web site develops from here.

Thanks again for your service. It is wonderful being Catholic! May God grant His Church peace and unity in the truth.

Sincerely,
* S. B.

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February 2, 2003 - 9:47 PM

Greetings Mr. Sungenis and "Mary's Remnant" Administration:

First, a brief thank you to Mr. Sungenis for his excellent books "Not By Faith Alone," "Not By Scripture Alone," and "Not By Bread Alone." Those works helped me convert to Catholicism from a Calvinist background--I converted in Aug 2001. My wife will be entering the Church this Easter, Lord willing.

R. Sungenis: Thank you * Mr. B. I'm glad you found them helpful. I hope they continue to be. Your encouragement is well appreciated.

Second, and the chief reason why I am writing, is that I noticed Mr. Sungenis' "Catholic Apologetics International" web site is listed as a "Schismatic" web site at Mary's Remnant web site. I was a bit surprised; I consider Mr. Sungenis to be in the same "camp" as other traditional Catholics like Gerry Matatics (whose web site is listed as a faithful traditional site).

R. Sungenis: Perhaps when "Mary's Remnant" can show us where they have the authority by order of the Catholic Church's magisterium to designate another Catholic ministry as "schismatic" then both you and I can take them seriously. As it stands, they have no such authority, and, in fact, show themselves in serious violation of Canon Law in assuming such authority. It is unfortunate when Catholic ministries that are supposed to be upholding the Catholic faith actually deny that very faith by assuming authority they don't have. The real truth is that "Mary's Remnant" disagrees with some of the opinions of CAI writers on controversial issues, and we disagree with them. But unlike them, we don't designate our opponents with labels like "schismatic" since we have no authority to do so.

It's my hope that this "schismatic" identification at the Mary's Remnant web site is a mistake; can either of you clarify this for me? Mary's Remnant administration: is there a particular element of www.CatholicIntl.com that you find schismatic? I certainly hope that this apostolate is not heading toward or already on a path of schism. (I am too "new" a Catholic to always discern the difference, quite frankly, which is why I appreciate Mary's Remnant... www.marysremnant.org)

R. Sungenis: We will be interested to see why Mary's Remnant thinks CAI is "schismatic," and where they believe they derive the authority to make such an accusation.

Thank you for bringing this out in the open, * Mr. B.

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February 2, 2003 - 11:12 PM

Hello again Ms. Ballard:

I'm sure you've noticed Mr. Sungenis' reply (see below). I can't speak to issues of Canon Law, but I can see his point. I don't want to beat this into the ground, but may I make a recommendation? I think it would be a good idea to create yet a third category on your web site--"Caution"--or something similar. Clearly certain sites in the "schismatic" section are such, and those sites are uninhibited in expressing their rejection of the Church's magisterium and/or Pope John Paul II. But to the best of my knowledge Mr. Sungenis is a Catholic in good standing with the Church, and has been endorsed by many orthodox Catholics. His tone occasionally leaves much to be desired, but I think it is probably a leap to label his site "schismatic" because of that, or because of positions sympathetic to irregular groups. I suppose the charitable thing to do would be to give such sites the benefit of the doubt and label them "Caution--dangerous tone or questionable associations." That may be especially wise if there are potential Canon Law violations with using the label "schismatic" as Mr. Sungenis states.

What do you think?

Thanks again. (No need to continue this dialogue if you don't have the time; I think that's all I really wanted to say.)

Have a wonderful week,

* S. B.

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February 3, 2003 - 10:18 AM

Peace and Blessings Mr. * B.,

I would like to post your emails in our Schism section, as this seems to be the only way to accurately present the situation in its entirety to our readers. If you would like, I will not include your email address and/or your name, as per your request.

You suggestion that I add a section is a good recommendation, and it was something I considered doing last night. There are web sites that are in Schism by rule of the Vatican, and others that are in apparent schism only, and I have them lumped in together. That was unwise. However, I feel that some of those in "apparent schism" are even more dangerous than those which are in overt Schism, for the very reason that nothing "official" has been handed down from Rome concerning their particular situation. I've decided instead to relabel the title of the section. I do not want to give our readers the idea that one is a lesser danger than the other.

Hoping to receive your reply soon, as this situation needs to be resolved in a timely manner.

Thank you in advance for your time and your trouble.

In the Two Hearts,
Doris Ballard

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The following three emails were waiting for me in my mailbox the morning after I first posted this page.

1)

February 3, 2003 - 11:32 PM

Thanks for considering my suggestion! You have my permission to post my emails at your site. I would prefer that my email address not be posted; you may use my name if you think that's appropriate--or just "SXXXX B"--whichever you think best.

As a footnote, a quick examination of some of Robert Sungenis' books at www.amazon.com shows that his past work (most of which is very recent) has been endorsed by numerous orthodox Catholics--the back cover includes just a few of the endorsements found in his book "Not By Faith Alone" for example.

May the Lord bless you!

Sincerely in Christ,

S B

2)

February 4, 2003 - 12:45 AM

Actually, Ms. Ballard, would you keep me anonymous when you post the emails? Sadly, I've researched this a bit more on the internet, and can see now that there is more reason for concern about recent commentaries by Mr. Sungenis than I had first realized.

I think I will just pray for him and all those who desire to promote the Catholic Faith.

Please let me know you received this request of mine for anonymity.

Sincerely,
S B

3)

February 4, 2003 - 1:25 AM

Sorry to bother you again Ms. Ballard. Ugh. I have read quite a bit of info on the internet about recent controversies surrounding Mr. Sungenis and his web commentaries. It makes me so sad!!! Petersnet apparently has "downgraded" his site as well.

Perhaps you shouldn't post my initial emails. I was ready to give Mr. Sungenis the benefit of the doubt--after all, I have benefited much from his previous "mainstream traditional/orthodox" work. But now I can see that prayer is in order here. I had no idea things had so degenerated at this "infrequently visited" site--it used to be so good!

Do as you see fit, but please keep me anonymous if you choose to post anything at all.

Sincerely,
S B

Our reply:

February 4, 2003 - 11:57 AM

Peace and Blessings Mr. B,

No bother at all. I'm relieved that you've done your own research, and sorry because I know what you've found. Please believe me that none of the sites we've listed in that section were put there on a "whim." That such well known people whose very names command respect in the apologetics world would have such a subversive agenda is proof that warnings and constant caution are needed. The bigger the "name," the more well known and respected ... then the more insidious, and therefore dangerous the web site.

We have posted your emails, in fact, had already done so by last night. We will keep your name anonymous, however, you must keep in mind that Mr. Sungenis also has your name and email address through no fault of our own, and we obviously have no control over what he might choose to do with it.

We want to thank you on several levels. Firstly, thank you for causing us to realize that we should have labeled that section differently, and not just thrown all of those web sites under the "Schismatic" label. All of those web sites are, indeed, in schism, however not all of the groups who promote them were excommunicated, and those who like to "turn the word" to their advantage could have caused us some grief. However, it needs to be said that it's the "schismatic content" of their beliefs and actions that can bring about excommunication, not excommunication that brings about schism. Secondly, we would like to thank you for giving us a living example of the dangers this schism poses within the Church. There can be no better lesson than a living parable.

May the Lord continue to lead you on your walk toward Him. He is apparently very carefully looking out for you. Continue in your apologetics research, and someday you may be ready to take up the slack for those who've lost their spiritual compass. Again, we wish your wife a joyful entry into the Church.

In the Two Hearts,
Doris Ballard

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